BBE British Bootlegging Enterprises

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  • FrankFrank 2,444 Posts
    this is my last posting on this...frank you will get what you deserve for sure. be careful what you wish for cause it may come back to you in a way you never expected! if we have to do another mix or kill this album then so be. kon and i will come back with a stronger better mix that i think people will enjoy just as much. we will be still doing our thing while your one trick pony act will get tired and die off. i know you trying to catch props from shittin on us in a public forum...the only reason it got personal from my end is because you made it personal by putting our label /us on blast. see, we take this shit serious. music is my life not some here today gone tomorrow shit.

    You sound like a broken record and have consistently refused to specify or back up your slanderous accusations.

    here's some food for thought:

    Is it good Karma to threaten other people with bad Karma?

    I wouldn't know cause I don't give a shit about some readers digest level pseudo spiritual bullshit like that.

    I put out two records within the last few months and I have licensed and am working on 5 more full length albums on 3 different labels at this very moment but yeah... I'm far from doing magical art like you, my mug doesn't end up on the cover and I don't need any of that shit.

    Most ridiculous is how you started with name calling and slandering when I didn't even mention you in my first post which as all about he label - and now you're acting all asshurt. Look what you called me and you couldn't back up any of your accusations regarding my "digging ethics". Do you think this just goes away just by ignoring it? Back up the shit you sprout.

    Now please give us the details you think you know of in regards of my dealings with my West African agents.

    Remember?

    The back story on my... ass.

    Do tell. please.  You blowhard bag full of overused, stale air



  • SnagglepusSnagglepus 1,756 Posts

  • subsub 311 Posts




  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts
    I'm wondering if Skel's hit-and-run heckle counts as an invocation of Godwin's law?

    Skel just said the Germans have the national stereotype of being arrogant. He never mentioned Nazis, called anybody a Nazi, or accused them of behaving like one.

    So no, I don't think it does.

  • jaymackjaymack 5,198 Posts
    could this be some genius internet viral cross promotion?

  • subsub 311 Posts
    i guess frank won't put the figures on the table in such a dense discussion but what does an african artist usually get for an exclusive license for a track on one of the many compilations that came out lately? i'd be curious. i guess it's hard to say on an average but maybe someone involved can give a hint..

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,873 Posts


    "Best thread in years"


    hahahaha

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    could this be some genius internet viral cross promotion?

    I like the idea of rap's "fake beef" strategy getting used to promote obscure reissues.

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,921 Posts
    I'm wondering if Skel's hit-and-run heckle counts as an invocation of Godwin's law?

    Skel just said the Germans have the national stereotype of being arrogant. He never mentioned Nazis, called anybody a Nazi, or accused them of behaving like one.

    So no, I don't think it does.

    I know, I was just reaching.

    This thread really only needs a Godwin's to attain cipher-complete status.

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    I'm wondering if Skel's hit-and-run heckle counts as an invocation of Godwin's law?

    Skel just said the Germans have the national stereotype of being arrogant. He never mentioned Nazis, called anybody a Nazi, or accused them of behaving like one.

    So no, I don't think it does.

    I know, I was just reaching.

    This thread really only needs a Godwin's to attain cipher-complete status.

    You know who else wanted to complete the cipher? Hitler.

    (Not the best Godwinning, I know.)

  • TNGTNG 234 Posts
    dude why do persist on trying to slander bbe? i mean they are legendary label despite what you may think. from j dilla to keb darge while numero was just the dirt road. yeah, they are not what they used to be but their catalog destroys numero's anyway. soul jazz and others they were doing things too but not always legit. you think otherwise, i can give you several names of artists that would agree with me.

    What "catalog" does BBE have? I'm sorry, a bunch of mix tapes from celebrity diggers ain't a fucking catalog.

    Legendary label? Only for bootlegs. At last count they booted five Numero-related records, and a cursory glance through their list of releases shows me they've booted dozens, if not a clean bill, more.

    I actually think they're a better label now than 10 years ago. But that's only because the world has gotten wise to their game. Shit, with out K7's money they wouldn't even be a label!

    Let's throw this out there: Why not take Off Track to Wax Po? They're way more legit, way more respected, and have a built in audience for your mixes. Is it because they don't want to deal with the headaches of trying to license (and subsequently not license) 20-30 tracks for a comp that might break 5K worldwide if the wind is just right?

  • pm me...lets you and i talk

  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    pm me...lets you and i talk

    Hey,

    That's more like it, gents!!! I'm sorry, but I prefer peace to conflict, yet this sentiment isn't shared by all on Soulstrut.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

  • E_DailyE_Daily 812 Posts
    International Waaaaaaaaaaaahfare

  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts
    I'm wondering if Skel's hit-and-run heckle counts as an invocation of Godwin's law?

    Skel just said the Germans have the national stereotype of being arrogant. He never mentioned Nazis, called anybody a Nazi, or accused them of behaving like one.

    So no, I don't think it does.

    I know, I was just reaching.

    This thread really only needs a Godwin's to attain cipher-complete status.

    You know who else wanted to complete the cipher? Hitler.

    (Not the best Godwinning, I know.)

    Good try though.

  • im going to try my best and take the high road.

    i speak for myself and no other.

    for the record, not once have i defended bbe for anything suspect they may or may not have done in the past or present.

    all the back and forth bs dirt trail name calling..to dismiss bbes back catalogue as a label with only "celebrity diggers" as if none of us have a keb darge, dilla, roy ayers, kenny dope, dj spinna, jazzy jeff release from them.
    all of this is nonsense and neither here nor there.

    frank...
    you have failed to reply to many of my valid points... and choose to only reply to my slicktalk... of which youve yet to really get a taste of, and wont, as its not a good look... and a waste of time.

    alot of people on the sidelines seem to share this particular view regarding your intentions.

    seriously....
    why...why why why why... would one ever post such a private matter on a chat board to begin with ? ATTENTION.
    Its tacky and juvenile.

    you have no answer for this.
    as for your initial passive aggressive stance.. it seems as if you set a trap with all of this.

    yes...that is the act of a muppet, asshole, or clown. i call it like i see it, nothing personal.

    how could you be so aloof.. as to act like you werent going to hear a peep from me regarding any of this after you boldly posted this ?
    your not dumb... come on.



    please dont use the "world needs to know bbe is shady" excuse and that this has nothing to do with me. it pertains to a release im directly involved in.
    had you told the story with all of the facts from the beginning, maybe i could see that your intentions were not malicious.
    but you didnt, you neglected to tell the world/internets the exact details on this whole matter...making your self out to look like some self righteous glorious saviour of records and re-issues.
    your not.

    youve already admitted to being guilty of the exact same thing in this, in that you were going to set up an escrow for it, as you said you figured it was who gets to it 1st. which allows all of us to know what kind of shit your on..you were determined to derail amir, there was no "out of respect for amir" going on. be clear and stop pretending you were, bluntly we would not be at this point, nor would you have posted.

    as frank has pointed out, hes made some bitch moves.... obviously not his 1st nor his last and is fully prepared to look foolish and burn bridges down while hes walking over them.

    considering how cunning your posts are, and your self admittance for enjoying all of this...it seems your true intent is not coming from a humble place at all.
    since day one you have had this condescending tone toward me... and weve never met. you were the one who 1st tried to question how i obtain records....and openly admitted you did have this attitude toward me... you admit freely, people have called you arrogant and such, and you come off as if your proud of this ?

    yes we all have egos... however mine may be about 5 crates deep, while yours seems to be in the millions.

    most people that know me...... will tell you im opinionated for sure, but im quite down to earth, and by no means consider myself to be a super hero... nor am i vindictive.

    as far as buying up a record collection or a few pieces here and there on the cheap, vs going to africa and running an entire operation.

    i had no idea its the same thing, considering how in depth franks operation is... agents ? money wires ? gobbling up all of the records in africa ?
    almost sounds like hes selling diamonds.
    what ever the case is, thats your business.

    none of the on track series, or any of my releases feature my face, (except for the rawkus 12)

    you seem to have a problem with this.. and sadly, it is your problem, regarding as to why my face is on a few covers, with what i present with my musical tastes and some edits.. ( vol 3 has a remix as well, as it also does not feature "my mug") as well as my programming/mixing... sorry to inform the misinformed... that is an art form and ability alot of "djs" lack.

    frank, obviously you dont understand marketing or branding. otherwise you wouldnt be on soulstrut of all places, asking for directions for your own releases... or even putting this into question.

    if you think im not about giving the artist proper shine, ask matthew larkin cassell, or donny mccollough.

    infact, i knew matts lps would be super sought after and expensive, and instead of me trying to buy all of his copies without him knowing any of this... i told him to hold on to what hes got...and sell them himself after the fact.

    no shots...
    the pissing contest is silly. theres no comparison.
    dont take that as to mean that what you do has no credit or value.
    were just 2 different animals... and this also goes for amir, you both select. period.

    i can tell you i have rocked parties in my hood for the grimiest of gangsters, crack smoke in the air, guns being drawn..shoot outs and all..none of which would be considered something a "superstar dj" would entertain doing.
    im far from any of that superstar shit. its what built me.
    fact is....i do it all, and im not above any of it.
    that shit keeps me humble.
    i simply asked whos booking you.. meaning whos paying for your flights/hotels/meals/ and dj fee to come play music ?
    your a niche selector, my dj/producer friends in the hip hop/ house world are not making what they used to make...the market is bad right now... so id be shocked as to how your being flown around, hotels paid for and a fee on top with dates booked 6 months prior to considering this.
    on the flip... anybody can be invited to spin.. provided they pay their own way to do so... with a lil cash at the end of the night for doing so.

    unlike you...not once did i boast about any of my glamorous central park bookings, parties, tours, cities, countries, or post my damn bio on here.. etc etc.
    i get enough love that i dont need to do this, or prove to you or people on chat boards anything.

    i simply stated you are not an artist...meaning, aside from playing and specializing in digging up rare records... id call that a knack for... no really much talent in that...and im not being condescending ...i think you know what i mean.
    your a "one trick pony selector" ..meaning that you specialize in one/two genres particularly.. and as a dj the records you play control you, you dont control them.
    you dont produce. so studio wise id imagine youd be lost...(as youve admitted you dont use your computer for anything but this type of soap opera bullshit going on here, ebay, and some emailing..and you most likely dont own any hardware) all of which is fine... just trying to get my definition across.
    i play drums as well...maybe you play an instrument im not aware of ?

    you are mainly known for selling records... ie.. "stay in your lane".

    to clarify.

    homie means this... you sell a record knowing its to be comped, regardless if you like how the person you sold it to is doing it, or feel the need to be credited for it since you provided the records to begin with... thats what you do right, sell records.

    a homie wouldnt go ahead and take the same track and also go to use it, on some who gets to it 1st.
    a homie would acquire the rights and say i know your intending to use this track that i sold you and i want to make sure its done properly "let bbe know i am the one to pay"... "lets get the track the most exposure possible" considering the 2 releases are marketed to 2 totally different buyers.

    but...nope.

    a homie... no forget that.....forget all of the shots and slicktalk... a grown ass man would NEVER put his dirty laundry out here like this.

    how can any of you reading disagree with this ?

    ive only responded/reacted to your initial posts.
    had i come on here 1st posting about "frank sold amir a record knowing it was to be comped and has now went out and bought the rights to it... and wont allow for it to be cleared thus resulting in bbe signing a bad deal, now were fucked thanks alot frank"... would be a similar situation.

    count my posts in this thread.

    after reading how much youve been posting...and boasting, its clear your getting off on this to begin with, you couldnt wait to post it all with pics of documents... its so evident your doing this for other reasons..which has now been revealed.

    this all reads very calculated, premeditated, arrogant, and just not cool on your behalf. but youve already told us... you dont care.. infact your happy about it.

    while some readers have had the balls to chime in on a serious note and let frank know how foolish he looks, and how unprofessional his posting of this is...
    considering how many hits this thread has gotten... alot of you may want to say something, yet remain on the sidelines for whatever reasons or try to interject jokes. this isnt funny. to see my release get shelved due to a stubborn man out for glory... aint a damn thing funny about that.
    alot of work goes into this on both my side and franks regardless of what we think of eachother...if you have an opinion, dont be shook...speak your mind.

    in closing, im not here to make myself look good or come across better than anybody..i call it like i see it...and if you cant see from reading this thread, the truth of the matter... youve been blinded.
    this isnt about frank vs bbe.
    had it been, he would NEVER have posted any of this publicly.. PERIOD.
    thats a sucker/bitch move right there.


    for what its worth, im very, very, fortunate and blessed to be able to do what i do..and have the friends and family that i do, and take none of it for granted... to have come back from a near fatal situation, in which many people in my/our community came together, as well as complete strangers...was one of the most humbling things ive been through.

    i have no time for grudge matches, or any of this bullshit... cuz really at the end of the day.. thats what this is. i cant stress this fact enough.. there was an option for this to be worked out, frank purposely chose not to.
    some people get off on being stubborn, arrogant, and difficult... as frank has stated... hes one of them.

    such is life.

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,028 Posts
    I'm wondering if Skel's hit-and-run heckle counts as an invocation of Godwin's law?

    Skel just said the Germans have the national stereotype of being arrogant. He never mentioned Nazis, called anybody a Nazi, or accused them of behaving like one.

    So no, I don't think it does.

    I know, I was just reaching.

    This thread really only needs a Godwin's to attain cipher-complete status.

    Pardonez-moi Frank!

    Had some RW things to attend, vis a vis a bootsale, lunch, mowing the lawn type shit.

    The national stereotype was not aimed at branding anyone a nazi (cipher incomplete right now), but you know, national stereotypes are born for the good reason that they capture some recogniseable essence. Goodness knows us Brits see enough of that on this board in the "colonialist", "imperialist", "anally retentive" vein that everyone conveniently forgets to criticise because it chimes with their own prejudices. Arrogance was not a word I would have applied to you a few years ago, but it's hard not see it as the prime go-to description for you right now.

    Here's another German stereotype: doggedness (World Cup-R), which you clearly display in abundance. Dude, you must have been up in this bith since inception.
    Here's one from the Brit side: we like to knock dudes off their pedestals.

    It seems clear that you should perhaps grow some belated humility and start the climbdown from your ivory tower. You may well be right that you will walk out of a courtroom utterly vindicated, but one suspects it will be to a deserted wasteland formerly populated by a throng of folks who once thrilled to your tales of blood-soaked voodoo sacrifices to the record gods accompanied by Kalashnikov wielding mercenaries.

    Right now those days seem long gone.

    BTW, in accordance with stereotype, I can't accept parlez with you in German/French/whatever, as our colonialist imperialism has rendered the need to speak in tongues redundant. I will, however, make a good fist of reducing Japanese dudes to a fit of giggles with 'Janet and John' level conversational Nihongo.

  • to reiterate:



    homie means this... you sell a record knowing its to be comped, regardless if you like how the person you sold it to is doing it, or feel the need to be credited for it since you provided the records to begin with... thats what you do right, sell records.

    a homie wouldnt go ahead and take the same track and also go to use it, on some who gets to it 1st.
    a homie would acquire the rights and say i know your intending to use this track that i sold you and i want to make sure its done properly "let bbe know i am the one to pay"... "lets get the track the most exposure possible" considering the 2 releases are marketed to 2 totally different buyers.

  • strikerstriker 146 Posts
    I wish people would stop dissing the Muppets, those guys were all about working together

    They'd have Doris Ebong on stage by now dealing with a Muppaphone solo all over her boogie trip

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,028 Posts
    Is it not possible for Frank to show good faith and let the BBE comp go, with some recompense:

    BBE reprint (or sticker) the sleeves with some "by kind permission of..." wording?
    Kon and Amir do some benefit show gratis of fees and the money generated given to the artist?
    BBE pay some notional fee for the track to cover Frank's connections' potential cash loss?

    And then put BBE on notice that, given the history, a repeat will not be tolerated?

    Jaw jaw, people, not war war.

  • dammsdamms 704 Posts
    I'm wondering if Skel's hit-and-run heckle counts as an invocation of Godwin's law?
    the threadstarter mentionned Hitler on his own out of nowhere a few pages back

  • FrankFrank 2,444 Posts
    Kon,

    Spare me the bullshit.


    Me having sold Amir a record that he wanted to comp has nothing to do with this.

    I sell records and not the rights to re-issue them. How could I sell something that I don't have.

    When I decided to use the record myself, I told so and offered to buy back the one he had bought from me. Even though he claims he bought it at an inflated price, he declined my offer.

    From there on it was fair game

    Now it should be clear that whoever first manages to clear the track gets to use it.



    This whole thing never had anything to do with you to begin with.

    The first post in this threat didn't even concern Amir but only BBE and me. This began almost 2 months ago when we notified BBE that we had obtained the exclusive copyright to this track.

    First they admitted to not having cleared the song themselves and then they got a fraudulent contract with the son of the owner of the record label, claiming that neither, the producer and author nor the singer would own any rights to their recording.

    This would have left Tony Essien who wrote the song and financed the recording of it pennyless.

    BBE threatened us with legal actions claiming that they and not us owned the copyright of this track.

    It took me until 2 days ago to get the original contract between our contract partner Tony Essien and Phonodisk Nigeria from 1982 which proves that Tony Essien always was the rightful copyright owner of this song and Phonodisk only acted as a distributor.

    This proves without any shadow of a doubt that the contract that BBE made the son of the former owner of Phonodisk was bogus.

    I notified BBE from this the minute I got the contract but never heard back from them.

    I checked online and found out that BBE is already selling digital downloads of this track.

    Then I decided to go public and expose them as the frauds who they are.

    You guys took this personal even thoug you do not handle the licensing for BBE.

    This was between BBE and me.

    You answered with a slew of insults and false accusations.

    Your phony argument that the release of this track on two comps would put more money in the pocket of the artist is ironic. BBE tried to keep them from making any money by signing this bizarre contract with the label owner's son.

    You do cash in more money from your comps than what the recording artists get anyway.

    So much to ethics.

    All your various, more or less thinveiled threats are laughable and your attempt at "taking the high road" after spewing insults and false accusations not even a day ago is pathetic and an embarrassment.

    What's that rambling about djing... do you think I'm at all concerend about how and where you dj?
    You were asking me all these questions and still want to know more. What kind of an obsession do you have with me? Yes, I do get flown around. I never fly to dj gigs on my own cost and thank you for your concern but I also get a hotel room...

    You want to get all artistic with your records or laptop and do whatever, that's great for you if it gives you joy and income, congratulations!

    But why does everybody else have to be measured by your standards of what is "real" and what is "non-real" djing?

    Just because there are dirt bikes people are still allowed to hike through the woods on foot, right?

    This is tired and old and I don't know why you keep riding this.
    I play old records. These records were intended to be played, one after the other, to a preferably dancing crowd. That's what I do.

    I don't mix or blend, I play one track after the other so people can appreciate every single song from start to end.

    This makes me a one trick pony selector, fine.

    I've been around for a while doing this and I have played a variety of different genres that mostly had in common that it was music people normally don't get to hear in a nightclub and everybody always seemed happy with this.

    For some 5 years now, I play Highlife, Funk, Disco and Afrobeat, all from West Africa.

    Before that I played Funk 45s for some 5-6 years and before that Euro Funk, Sexploitation Soundtracks and French 60s Pop. I privately listen to a much wider variety of music.

    So just leave me alone, do your thing and let me do mine.

    As far as my record dealings with various people in Arica, why are you interested in that? You keep rambling false to nonsensical stuff about me paying "maybe 10%" to my agents and then you say "fuck your agent" and now it's "like I'm selling diamonds".

    Get ready to feed your CDs into the shredder and keep your threats a bit better obscured or you might find yourself in a whole new dimension of trouble.

    As much fun as this was, I have other things to do and I repeated all I can and want to say multiple times already so I'm out of this!

    Enjoy the rest of your Sunday

    Frank

    PS. I'm too lazy to spellcheck this mess so sorry if I hurt your eyes too much.

  • subsub 311 Posts
    Is it not possible for Frank to show good faith and let the BBE comp go, with some recompense:

    BBE reprint (or sticker) the sleeves with some "by kind permission of..." wording?
    Kon and Amir do some benefit show gratis of fees and the money generated given to the artist?
    BBE pay some notional fee for the track to cover Frank's connections' potential cash loss?

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,921 Posts
    I'm wondering if Skel's hit-and-run heckle counts as an invocation of Godwin's law?
    the threadstarter mentionned Hitler on his own out of nowhere a few pages back

    Hitler loved music.

    YES. And to think I drove straight past it...







    Fellas - I think we got us a convoy.

  • CosmophonicCosmophonic 1,172 Posts
    Two words:

    Culture clash.

  • FrankFrank 2,444 Posts
    I can't believe I'm still on here...
    I think I owe you an answer but damn this is going to be the last one for sure... what a clusterfuck and what a waste of time.




    It seems clear that you should perhaps grow some belated humility and start the climbdown from your ivory tower. You may well be right that you will walk out of a courtroom utterly vindicated, but one suspects it will be to a deserted wasteland formerly populated by a throng of folks who once thrilled to your tales of blood-soaked voodoo sacrifices to the record gods accompanied by Kalashnikov wielding mercenaries.

    Right now those days seem long gone.

    You're confusing Soulstrut with the real world. My life is just fine. I switch between 3 continents various times a year and I have all the local support and friends would want or need wherever I go. While I appreciate your concern. I spend all my days every day doing exactly what I enjoy doing the most. Internet beefs or other minor diffusions are good for a quick laugh but will never have any larger impact on my life and how I live it. Except the time it sometimes kills. In this case the rewards were truly worth it though.



    Is it not possible for Frank to show good faith and let the BBE comp go, with some recompense:

    BBE reprint (or sticker) the sleeves with some "by kind permission of..." wording?
    Kon and Amir do some benefit show gratis of fees and the money generated given to the artist?
    BBE pay some notional fee for the track to cover Frank's connections' potential cash loss?

    And then put BBE on notice that, given the history, a repeat will not be tolerated?

    Jaw jaw, people, not war war.


    I can't hold it against you that you didn't read the whole thing but:

    -BBE threatened US with legal action on grounds of a fraudulent contract on their part which would bypass the producer and true copyright holder and instead have the son of the bale owner pocket the money.

    I do not have the habit of showing good faith to people who tried to mess with me like that.

    We have signed this track exclusively because our intended use of this track surpasses its inclusion on this compilation.

    There will be a 12" remix by one trick pony selector coming out this fall.

    We are also in the process of purchasing the OG video clip to this track filmed in 1982.

    This is why we under no circumstances will tolerate the illegal release of this track on any competing product.

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,028 Posts

    You're confusing Soulstrut with the real world.

    This is some glib platitude that needs to be put to bed.

    You think 4700 viewings of this will have no impact on your real world?

    Think again.

  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    holy smokes. this is intense.

  • Options
    Frank, you sure are a stubborn old prick

  • cadeauxcadeaux 208 Posts
    Frank,
    you?re pushing your luck...
    so many views on this thread - you must be very sure you never made anything shady, because if - there are many in line now to skin you.

    Maybe you?re lucky enough to life this "Quality Digger Live" you keep braggin about... But really, I don?t buy it that you play the game in your generous ways.

    To be honest - could it be that you realised the thing about this Boogie track after Amir decided to put on his thing? Many tracks are slept on by their owners.

    Many things in this discussion (is it still a discussion?) are shady, but you should have kept it out of public.


    Oh, and to all who rode Franks Dick so hard in the last months - why so quiet now? ah yes, the master is in fury, better not speak.
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