Hey Canadians (Politics Thread NRR) Oh what a week
DOR
Two Ron Toe 9,899 Posts
I know there are a few on the board.Interesting where we find ourselves today... It's been 10 years since the Country went through something that almost finished it (Something like 55,000+ votes short).And today the Gomery Report dropped.There really is soooo much to talk about, but since we aren't Americans, very few care. If this shit was going on in the US, it would be the biggest news around the world no doubt.I really am thinking this scandal is going to help pick up steam for the separation cause again. Look to 3-5 years for this think to really start to blow up.For anyone that has no idea what is going on reading this thread. Here is an outside source breakdown. ABCJust try to think about a state trying to separate and the president ended up using hundreds of millions of your tax money to try and get them to stay in the union with advertising & flags & other crap. No prob right? Until you find out, that huge portions of the money didn't go into anything, except the pockets of party members. Through backdoor payoffs with party friendly firms.It really gets much more deeper than all this.Canadians, thoughts??? Or anyone else for that matter???
Comments
B -
You know, I'm really @ a point where if the citizenry of Quebec wants to separate, then they should be allowed - it would propel them into a 3rd world status economically, they would still need to use the Canadian currency for their trades for the immediate time being, etc. - all wouldn't be the halcyonic wine and roses/salad days that the rhetorical sovereigntists espouse... The problem w/ Canada is that's it's too large of a land mass to legislate dual languages as a national mandate - Switzerland/Belgium? Fine... Look @ the physical scale... Continual appeasement eventually breeds resentment elsewhere - and when the future of the Canada is tethered to the oil sands in northern Alberta, it isn't as if Quebec won't enjoy some of the spoils of the revenues coming in from that either... Speaking French elsewhere in Canada - so NOT necessary - sad, but true...
the future middle east
I think this is going to be very good and very bad. I'm glad the liberals are on their way out, but there will not be another majority government. It is going to strengthen the NDP, the PQ, and the Conservatives.
I think the NDP and the PQ have the most to win out of this as the conservatives kind of had their reputation ruined during this whole affair.
As well, since in the west a lot of people voted liberal to keep out the conservatives, when really they were leaning towards the NDP, it will be an all out fight NDP VS Conservatives. In combination with the Teachers strike in BC, the NDP will gain over there. The NDP may gain a seat or two in Alberta, since they were really close in a couple of spots in Edmonton.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the PQ. Because neither the NDP nor the liberals will get anything in Quebec, but I'm not too sure what kind of strength the conservatives have there (can't remember).
Anyway, glad to have a party on the way out that steals ideas from the NDP for campaigning and then governs like the conservatives
ps - this will strengthen Quebec nationalism for sure. And we could see another referendum.
I totally agree with you.
A few issues to think about tho.
Their part of the debt...
And Native land rights. All tribes in Quebec (As much as they don't like the Canadian government) don't want anything to do with seperation. Since a huge portion of Quebec is actually Native land, I don't know where they think they are going with anything... But alas, this shit ain't ever going away until something is done, one way or the other.
I guess However, the scandal probably wont even hurt the liberal party in votes in the end. Classic canadian shit...passive
But you are right the separatist movement is picking up steam. With the young generation being uber-down with it (plus upheaval over the student rights) and the old-school spearatists still holding it down. However, its the same story which frustrates me. The thing is the most unplanned/gut move/act now think later type of political decision i have ever seen and now 10 years later its even worse.
I think a lot of soverenist opinions are worthy but most soverenists arent even like that. Lets just separate, fuck the fed gov! Yeah!
Whats going to happen after? ever thought ahead. This is the reason people voted no in 95.
We should be passionate about other political issues. Want revolution but vote for charest
It's all the big Quebec business that wants to separate so that they can create favorable economic conditions for themselves to thrive in, while the rest of the ordinary people deal with the economic collapse that separating will cause. Add to that the anger along racial lines that will ensue when both sides have to lose out of this.
It would be very ugly. But Quebec despises the liberals, especially after the 300,000 student strike (with labour wildcat striking) when the liberals tried to take away tution bursaries.
Exactly I heard Duceppe on the radio talking about the Quebec Armed Forces. Fuck guys I am not even against separating it is just too fucking badly organised
Dont forget the random hate factor: osti d'anglais! sums it up. A lot of my friends went to BC and were like oh shit theyre are other cool canadians.
Its a shame NPD never profits from Liberal downfalls. Paul Martin is a crook.
Now all of this aside the funds being wasted is the worse. However the anti-separatist campaign is a really bad issue (state/opinion agenda) no matter where you stand on separatism
The big problem with the NDP (and I am a card carrying member) is they have a huge history of betrail because most of their leaders are uber-reformists and don't have the balls to do what's needed. Ontario and BC are great examples.
The NDP should go back to the program of the CCF!
Side note: those recent conservative party ads to revamp his image we're hilarious!
You wouldn't know it with how most put on the kids gloves when bring his name up...
I mean... How does the guy that was in charge of finace in the country not know anything about 300 million going missing... About a huge portion of it going into his own parties campaign funds??? We all knew he was a crook going into the election with the shit that came up dealing with his company. Ignorance must be bliss...
Don't get me started on Jean... How many scandels does this guy have associated with him now? And yet, he's still smug and will never accept any of the blame. Eventhough it was his baby program at the centre of all this.
Merde...
The NDP and PQ won't combine because there is now way they will reach a common platform. The PQ is represented by big business in Quebec and the NDP is theoretically a part of the labour (although, starting with Carol James in BC, that is begining to change).
For you economics-heads his debt reducing (deficit 0) (key to his success) was a tax-scam that took away contributors money. He took down the deficit!wow!we paid more taxes for it..unhg???!
The guy has the balls to talk about his boating cie as OK in a fiscal paradise (as finance minister he said it was an objective to hunt fiscal paradise) because he doesnt own it...his sons do!
After his innerparty-war-takeover of the leadership. I was happy to see him getting beat downs scandal after scandal
But he has come out unscathed now and will probably not lose popularity over Gomery
Also in reference to your claim about Gomery's importance
Looking at what the 9/11 investigation had as effect we can except the same reaction.
Side note: charest still has 2 years...horrible
Aye m'a voter pour l'ADQ c'est different...
We keep on doing it
JESUS!
Yeah you bring a good point about the NPD. However they could compromise ontheir social issues (both are pretty "intense" at least from a conservative viewpoint)
And they need to unite to offer a serious opposition. People dont want conservative and they agree with points of each and hate the liberals. It could work
* This fucker is doing his best to destroy the world...
The guy seriously cracks me up...
I would never go so far as to say he knew anything about this (Though it wouldn't surprise me), but the fact remains, he was the man in charge and it was his people that are at the centre of this. Be it his right hand man Jean Pelletier or Alfonso Gagliano (The dude he made an ambassador for doing such a good job for him). He was their boss and deserves to be held responsible.
No.. You get no pass... Not since Clinton is a buddy of these guys and did his part to keep the country together. I'm glad he made the statement he did back in 95. But since we are your biggest trading partner, this effects you too...
Stop thinking we all live in igloos.
However we unfortunately share the same problems. Passive/easily controlable voting mass. Two party system (for us its almost one party)
and especially general ignorance/not care about scandals (enron,halliburt,Dubya grand father nazi connection)
I mean the conflict of interest about Cheyney and his wife being the president of a company getting tons of gov contracts...Its fucking outrageous
You cant even win a cereal raffle if your aunt works for Post cereals
However this
No conflict of interest there...hhaahaha good one dick
You don't???
naw man thats alaska, canadians live wood cabins and eat beaver
Well....I live in the US, and I don't live in a wood cabin, however....
You don't???
Well, I didn't really think thats what you thought...
More of a statment, that this has so much to do with you. Even more than 99% of your population even realizes. What affects us greatly, also affects you greatly. And vice versa!
Well, I didn't really think thats what you thought...
More of a statment, that this has so much to do with you. Even more than 99% of your population even realizes. What affects us greatly, also affects you greatly. And vice versa!
I dig that. Unfortunately the media here in the US is worse than useless. The last things I remember reading in US papers about Canada were the armed standoff on the Mohawk reservation and when Quebec was trying to secede. How many years ago was that????
Sadly, I can name all the stars of SCTV and the Kids In The Hall, but very few Canadian PMs...
Well, I didn't really think thats what you thought...
More of a statment, that this has so much to do with you. Even more than 99% of your population even realizes. What affects us greatly, also affects you greatly. And vice versa!
Wait till there's a water shortage and watch the troops roll-in
They dont want to help america theyare not generous!
Particularly galling was the short piece in this week's New Yorker where (according to the Daily News) it seems that W. lashed out @ everyone including Rove and Cheney for all of the foibles that the administration has been through of late - never did it occur that he himself as president would be culpable and possibly/maybe @ fault for some of the grievous error(s) in judgment - hubris indeed... Power corrupts absolutely...
Wait till there's a water shortage and watch the troops roll-in
They dont want to help america theyare not generous!
Funny.. They all think it's about oil...
Like 3rdstream already brought up...
In the future, it will all be about fresh water. Canada has LOADS... The US has a very limited supply.