i'm listening to the other g.o.o.d. friday tracks at full blast right now and while less mastered and mixed, they just add to the experience of it all.
i'm honestly picturing kanye in hawaii with a studio and inviting these people to create music with him. almost like crosby in those days. people that just want to make music and get it out there.
As someone mentioned before, it's difficult to warm up to Kanye's music if you don't like Kanye's persona. ]
I really dont factor in what People magazine has to say about West when listening to his music.
Does the Bush/Swift stuff really hamper whether the music is good or not?
Elbows...IMO.
Some people do let Bush/Swift stuff hamper with whether they find the music good or not. I don't necessarily see that on the Strut, but I see it plenty elsewhere.
I've never been a big fan of Kanye as a rapper, I like what he does much more when he's producing others. I enjoy his own songs here and there but none of his whole records keep my interest.
Thing is, dude didn't really flex an over-the-top persona until recently imo, it has been a progressive thing and though I seem like I am a satellite stalker therapist, I don't know too much about he had to say prior to the Bush comment. Then I really liked him, but still was lukewarm on the music.
I appreciate him as an artist, loathe him as a public figure and love that he gets folks talking.
I understand the overlapping of the art and the marketing, but that quagmire doesn't interest me too much. It just detracts from what little I like about what he does.
As someone mentioned before, it's difficult to warm up to Kanye's music if you don't like Kanye's persona. ]
I really dont factor in what People magazine has to say about West when listening to his music.
Does the Bush/Swift stuff really hamper whether the music is good or not?
Elbows...IMO.
Some people do let Bush/Swift stuff hamper with whether they find the music good or not. I don't necessarily see that on the Strut, but I see it plenty elsewhere.
I've never been a big fan of Kanye as a rapper, I like what he does much more when he's producing others. I enjoy his own songs here and there but none of his whole records keep my interest.
Thing is, dude didn't really flex an over-the-top persona until recently imo, it has been a progressive thing and though I seem like I am a satellite stalker therapist, I don't know too much about he had to say prior to the Bush comment. Then I really liked him, but still was lukewarm on the music.
I appreciate him as an artist, loathe him as a public figure and love that he gets folks talking.
I understand the overlapping of the art and the marketing, but that quagmire doesn't interest me too much. It just detracts from what little I like about what he does.
No.
That's why I've not had anything to say about the record.
Monster is fine and I am trying to keep an open mind for Blame Game seeing as how I think Legend is like lukewarm pablum. (edit - and I find the whole concept tacky - Taylor Swift what)
The Rihanna track is unlistenable because Rihanna's voice is unbearable to me.
I'll listen one day. After the hype dies down and I've forgotten what I've read in this thread so I can go in with semi-fresh ears.
couple of very different opinions here in the guardian, one from tom ewing who was largely bowled over in awe by it. but i do like the bit where he says -
"there are enough ideas on the album to awe a listener into accepting it quickly as a masterpiece and perhaps repent it at leisure afterwards."
couple of very different opinions here in the guardian, one from tom ewing who was largely bowled over in awe by it. but i do like the bit where he says -
"there are enough ideas on the album to awe a listener into accepting it quickly as a masterpiece and perhaps repent it at leisure afterwards."
The Guardian's coverage of rap music has always been absolutely appalling, they seem to have got stuck a long time ago in middle class discomfort over anything that doesn't match to their collection of 5 classic rap CDs. Doesn't look like much has changed .
Not directed at you N*ck but, to echo Doc on this, I do find it both strange and in its own way amusing that there are people on here who seem to believe that any sort of endorsement of this album is an automatic disowning of all other rap music. Don't think I've ever seen one album expose so many tenderberries.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
The Tom Ewing piece is here. It's interesting that he compares the album (or aspects of it) to Lennon's Plastic Ono Band, because that was one of the first things that struck me about it too - from all the paranoia and blasts of cathartic self-loathing at one extreme, to the Love-like tenderness of things like Blame Game at the other. I was going to mention this in my original post, but I thought comparisons to both Bowie and Lennon might be one rockist step too far for Soul Strut, so I decided against it.
The Guardian's coverage of rap music has always been absolutely appalling, they seem to have got stuck a long time ago in middle class discomfort over anything that doesn't match to their collection of 5 classic rap CDs. Doesn't look like much has changed .
no worries dude. just to contextualise - if your directing those remarks at alex, i can tell you that would be totally misguided. one of the most knowledgeable dudes i can think of, a respected commentator within that sphere on all things current rap, interviews people like the dream and so forth. has no interest whatsoever in golden era stuff. oh and sorry i got the tom ewing link wrong, amended.
The Guardian's coverage of rap music has always been absolutely appalling, they seem to have got stuck a long time ago in middle class discomfort over anything that doesn't match to their collection of 5 classic rap CDs. Doesn't look like much has changed .
no worries dude. just to contextualise - if your directing those remarks at alex, i can tell you that would be totally misguided. one of the most knowledgeable dudes i can think of, a respected commentator within that sphere on all things current rap, interviews people like the dream and so forth. has no interest whatsoever in golden era stuff. oh and sorry i got the tom ewing link wrong, amended.
It's a shame he wasn't blinded by the hype like when he reviewed Carter 3.
well i guess he's into pop and rnb in a big way as well, ciara and such. fair enough. i just think its nice to read a different opinion on this record (why i posted the review in the first place). I don't think this is a masterpiece on a pop level nor a hip hop level.
Yeah and no shame in that at all, many of us are. Just would think that, taking that into account, the album would be worth more than 2 purely on the production aspect. Just seemed to me that it was more a judgment on West than the album - you can't really rip his rhymes the way he has while ignoring everything apart from that it's a party aimed release on a Florida album. No matter though, no biggie and won't dwell on it further as this thread probably has enough angst as is.
the only flaws i can find with the album is the mastering and the weak Jay-Z verses, would have loved to hear more RZA and less Hov.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Ulysses31nicholas said:
The Guardian's coverage of rap music has always been absolutely appalling, they seem to have got stuck a long time ago in middle class discomfort over anything that doesn't match to their collection of 5 classic rap CDs. Doesn't look like much has changed .
no worries dude. just to contextualise - if your directing those remarks at alex, i can tell you that would be totally misguided. one of the most knowledgeable dudes i can think of, a respected commentator within that sphere on all things current rap, interviews people like the dream and so forth. has no interest whatsoever in golden era stuff. oh and sorry i got the tom ewing link wrong, amended.
Agree with all of this ^^^^ - Alex Macpherson is the only Guardian writer whose opinions on hip-hop are worth bothering with, precisely because he doesn't begin from the same implied position which asserts that obviously, none of this new stuff is as good as Nation Of Millions, 3 Feet High, Deltron 3030, Operation Doomsday, Immortal Technique, Dilla, blahblahblah and so on and so forth...which is why the level of vitriol in his review comes as a genuine surprise to me.
To put Kanye on par with DJ Ironik is just absurd.
I doubt anyone riding for this album seriously considers it Kanye's best work, let alone a masterpiece.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Have we all spotted the major flaw in the star-rating/marks-out-of-ten method of record reviewing yet?
As someone who is riding for MBDTF, I will reiterate my earlier remark, which is that I believe it to be at least as good as, and possibly better than, his best work to date (Late Registration, for the record). There hasn't yet been a Kanye album that I've come to like less over time. I've either liked 'em immediately (this one, College Dropout), not liked 'em from the start and stayed not likin' 'em (808s and Heartbreak), or they've grown on me (Late Registration, Graduation).
This is the first album of his which i've liked pretty much straight away.
Graduation took a while but all of a sudden i realised it's a great album.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Incidentally, I'm going to stick my neck out and say this is probably the longest SS thread debating the merits of a single album since that epic Clipse thread in 2006, although it's got a way to go before it beats that one. I haven't re-read the entire thread, but I do recall Hell Hath No Fury having a similarly polarising effect to the Kanye album.
Incidentally, I'm going to stick my neck out and say this is probably the longest SS thread debating the merits of a single album since that epic Clipse thread in 2006, although it's got a way to go before it beats that one. I haven't re-read the entire thread, but I do recall Hell Hath No Fury having a similarly polarising effect to the Kanye album.
I don't think Pusha T is going to be happy until he tears Soul Strut apart and all we can do is look around at the wreckage and try to pick up the pieces. I really shutter to think what happens when he puts out aforementioned solo record on G.O.O.D.
P.S. Strictly for the UK headz, I went back and checked out Drukqs, the only Aphex Twin album that somehow slipped through the cracks for me, and gave it a listen -- Kanye's choice of "Avril 14" is definitely a highlight, a short and sweet prepared piano work that I have played several times already. His trademark IDM freakouts are OK but those piano works are so great. You can almost see how Richard D. James may have been getting tired of the electronic stuff he seemed to have mastered and the fact that he went on hiatus thereafter makes sense.
(total thread derail, only addressed to white tea) if you're interested in how those pieces were created, richard dismantled a piano, installed a mechanical system that allowed the hammers and keys of the piano to be triggered via midi. then composed the pieces on computer and used that to trigger the prepared piano. which is why they have that sort of ethereal robotic-yet-organic quality to them. a giant music box. genius
i love that record, one of his best. and no hiatus either, he has 7 albums ready to drop. he's just a perfectionist
I've never been a big fan of Kanye as a rapper, I like what he does much more when he's producing others. I enjoy his own songs here and there but none of his whole records keep my interest.
Agreed 100%. I was a fan until he started using his own vocals. After that, not so much.
bassie said:
The Rihanna track is unlistenable because Rihanna's voice is unbearable to me.
Agreed 1,000%. Her warbling strident baritone is like fingernails on chalkboard. She makes a much better fashionista than singer.
Comments
i'm honestly picturing kanye in hawaii with a studio and inviting these people to create music with him. almost like crosby in those days. people that just want to make music and get it out there.
I've never been a big fan of Kanye as a rapper, I like what he does much more when he's producing others. I enjoy his own songs here and there but none of his whole records keep my interest.
Thing is, dude didn't really flex an over-the-top persona until recently imo, it has been a progressive thing and though I seem like I am a satellite stalker therapist, I don't know too much about he had to say prior to the Bush comment. Then I really liked him, but still was lukewarm on the music.
I appreciate him as an artist, loathe him as a public figure and love that he gets folks talking.
I understand the overlapping of the art and the marketing, but that quagmire doesn't interest me too much. It just detracts from what little I like about what he does.
So I guess u didnt sit down w/ the album?
That's why I've not had anything to say about the record.
Monster is fine and I am trying to keep an open mind for Blame Game seeing as how I think Legend is like lukewarm pablum. (edit - and I find the whole concept tacky - Taylor Swift what)
The Rihanna track is unlistenable because Rihanna's voice is unbearable to me.
I'll listen one day. After the hype dies down and I've forgotten what I've read in this thread so I can go in with semi-fresh ears.
"there are enough ideas on the album to awe a listener into accepting it quickly as a masterpiece and perhaps repent it at leisure afterwards."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/nov/25/kanye-west-tom-ewing-on-music
meanwhile alex macpherson whose tastes are probably closer to my own slates it . "he whinges, we cringe"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/nov/25/kanye-west-beautiful-dark-twisted-review
The Guardian's coverage of rap music has always been absolutely appalling, they seem to have got stuck a long time ago in middle class discomfort over anything that doesn't match to their collection of 5 classic rap CDs. Doesn't look like much has changed .
Not directed at you N*ck but, to echo Doc on this, I do find it both strange and in its own way amusing that there are people on here who seem to believe that any sort of endorsement of this album is an automatic disowning of all other rap music. Don't think I've ever seen one album expose so many tenderberries.
no worries dude. just to contextualise - if your directing those remarks at alex, i can tell you that would be totally misguided. one of the most knowledgeable dudes i can think of, a respected commentator within that sphere on all things current rap, interviews people like the dream and so forth. has no interest whatsoever in golden era stuff. oh and sorry i got the tom ewing link wrong, amended.
Rappin' 'bout "Lost in this plastic life" surrounded by a bunch of plastic. It makes sense.
It's a shame he wasn't blinded by the hype like when he reviewed Carter 3.
He gave Florida's debut 3 stars:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/apr/04/urban
And Moke's Artists of the century N-Dubz 3 stars:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/nov/14/n-dubz-uncle-b-review
So by his reasoning both of these albums are superior to MBDTF?
Oh yeah he also gave 808s 4 stars as well.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/nov/21/kanye-west-808s-heartbreak
Giving the album 2 out of 5 just seems to me like as much of a knee jerk reaction as giving it 10 out of 10 on first listen.
Agree with all of this ^^^^ - Alex Macpherson is the only Guardian writer whose opinions on hip-hop are worth bothering with, precisely because he doesn't begin from the same implied position which asserts that obviously, none of this new stuff is as good as Nation Of Millions, 3 Feet High, Deltron 3030, Operation Doomsday, Immortal Technique, Dilla, blahblahblah and so on and so forth...which is why the level of vitriol in his review comes as a genuine surprise to me.
I doubt anyone riding for this album seriously considers it Kanye's best work, let alone a masterpiece.
As someone who is riding for MBDTF, I will reiterate my earlier remark, which is that I believe it to be at least as good as, and possibly better than, his best work to date (Late Registration, for the record). There hasn't yet been a Kanye album that I've come to like less over time. I've either liked 'em immediately (this one, College Dropout), not liked 'em from the start and stayed not likin' 'em (808s and Heartbreak), or they've grown on me (Late Registration, Graduation).
Graduation took a while but all of a sudden i realised it's a great album.
I don't think Pusha T is going to be happy until he tears Soul Strut apart and all we can do is look around at the wreckage and try to pick up the pieces. I really shutter to think what happens when he puts out aforementioned solo record on G.O.O.D.
i love that record, one of his best. and no hiatus either, he has 7 albums ready to drop. he's just a perfectionist
Agreed 1,000%. Her warbling strident baritone is like fingernails on chalkboard. She makes a much better fashionista than singer.