NYPD protest De Blasio at Wenjian Liu funeral

edith headedith head 5,106 Posts
edited January 2015 in Strut Central
Speaking as an outsider observing all of this via the news of the week and not knowing the full history as a New York resident, I must say that I am really confused and feel sick to my stomach reading that this happened again at the 2nd funeral despite the police commish's plea to not do this and be respectful to the family.

Please enlighten me. Did all of this hate towards De Blasio really just stem from him publicly admitting his sympathy with Eric Garner supporters & saying on record that he had a talk with his (black) son to tread lightly if he ever had a confrontation with the police? i just can’t wrap my head around this grandstanding spectacle at a funeral especially after experiencing the grief and pain personally of losing someone who was very dear to me last year. Because honestly if I encountered this at a loved one's funeral I would fucking lose my shit.
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  • kalakala 3,358 Posts
    the deal is it's ok for cops to kill people and get away with it,once you insinuate it's wrong you are then blacklisted by the posse comitatus.

    this is then backed up by the sociopathic criminal pig union president aptly named "Lynch " who actually went as far as blaming DeBlasio for the 2 recent deaths and that as I am sure you read "the mayor has blood on his hands.
    NYPD have killed 179 people in the last 15 years with inly one indictment-

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/08/179-people-killed-by-nypd_n_6288852.html

    it's pretty simple really ,the police everywhere in amoreikkka are accountable to no one for their 4th reich nazi inspired atrocities.

    here is a good one-and this happens EVERY FUCKING DAY with 0 compunction
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95475

    police while his wife was handcuffed in another room during a drug

    raid on the wrong house.

    Police admitted their mistake, saying faulty information from a drug informant contributed to the death of John Adams Wednesday night. They intended to raid the home next door.

    The two officers, 25-year-old Kyle Shedran and 24-year-old Greg Day, were placed on administrative leave with pay.

    “They need to get rid of those men, boys with toys,” said Adams’ 70-year-old widow, Loraine.

    John Adams was watching television when his wife heard pounding on the door. Police claim they identified themselves and wore police jackets. Loraine Adams said she had no indication the men were police.

    “I thought it was a home invasion. I said ‘Baby, get your gun!,” she said, sitting amid friends and relatives gathered at her home to cook and prepare for Sunday’s funeral.

    Resident Fired First

    Police say her husband fired first with a sawed-off shotgun and they responded. He was shot at least three times and died later at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville.

    Loraine Adams said she was handcuffed and thrown to her knees in another room when the shooting began.

    “I said, ‘Y’all have got the wrong person, you’ve got the wrong place. What are you looking for?“‘

    “We did the best surveillance we could do, and a mistake was made,” Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks said. “It’s a very severe mistake, a costly mistake. It makes us look at our own policies and procedures to make sure this never occurs again.” He said, however, the two policemen were not at fault.

    The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation is investigating. NAACP officials said they are monitoring the case. Adams was black. The two policemen are white.

    Family members did not consider race a factor and Weeks agreed, but said the shooting will be “a major setback” for police relations with the black community.

    “We know that, we hope to do everything we can to heal it,” Weeks said.

    Johnny Crudup, a local NAACP official, said the organization wanted to make sure and would investigate on its own.

    Weeks said he has turned the search warrant and all other evidence over to the bureau of investigation and District Attorney General Tommy Thompson. A command officer must now review all search warrants.
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95475

    another
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/us/georgia-toddler-stun-grenade-no-indictment/
    A federal prosecutor will review the case of a Georgia SWAT team that threw a flash-bang grenade into a playpen, according to a Tuesday statement.

    The news comes a day after a state grand jury declined to return an indictment.

    The incident, which severely injured a 1-year-old child, occurred in May when the Habersham County Special Response Team conducted a drug raid in Cornelia. The grand jury began hearing the case late last month.

    "Federal authorities have been participating in the investigation of this terrible incident, and now that a state grand jury has declined to return an indictment, we will review the matter for possible federal charges," said U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia Sally Quillian Yates.

    The police officers involved were called baby killers and received threats following the incident, Habersham County Sheriff Joey Terrell said at the time.

    The SWAT team, made up of six or seven officers from the sheriff's department and the Cornelia Police Department, entered the Cornelia residence of Wanis Thonetheva on the morning of May 28.


    Wanis Thonetheva is being held without bond.
    A confidential informant hours earlier had purchased methamphetamine at the house, the sheriff said.

    Because Thonetheva had a previous weapons charge, officers were issued a "no-knock warrant" for the residence, Terrell said.

    When the SWAT team hit the home's front door with a battering ram, it resisted as if something was up against it, the sheriff said, so one of the officers threw the flash-bang grenade inside the residence.

    Once inside the house, the SWAT team realized it was a portable playpen blocking the door, and the flash-bang grenade had landed inside where a 19-month-old was sleeping, the sheriff said.

    A medic on the scene rushed the baby outside to administer first aid, and a nearby ambulance transported the baby to a hospital.

    The child's mother, Alecia Phonesavanh, told CNN affiliate WSB the family was sleeping at her sister-in-law's house when police arrived, and the grenade seared a hole through the portable playpen after exploding on the child's pillow.

    "He's in the burn unit. We go up to see him and his whole face is ripped open. He has a big cut on his chest," Phonesavanh told the station at the time.

    Thonetheva, 30, was not at the home at the time of the raid, but the toddler's mother and father and their other three children were inside. Thonetheva's mother was also at the house, Terrell said.

    Thonetheva was arrested at another Cornelia residence, along with three other people, shortly after the raid, Terrell said. He was charged with distribution of methamphetamine.

    Thonetheva was not charged with any weapons crime, and as for drugs, Terrell said officers found only residue in the home.

    In hindsight, Terrell said at the time, officers would've conducted the raid differently had they known there was a child inside the home, but there was no sign of children during the alleged drug purchase that prompted the raid.

    "We might have gone in through a side door," he said. "We would not have used a flash bang."

    and on and on and on
    this almost never happens in canada or europe
    To me the PIGS are terrorists




  • kalakala 3,358 Posts
    pigs kill 5,000 since 9/11
    so they are in fact a terrorist force
    WHO PROTECTS US FROM YOU

    http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-murdered-5000-innocent-civilians-since-911/172029/

    Though Americans commonly believe law enforcement’s role in society is to protect them and ensure peace and stability within the community, the sad reality is that police departments are often more focused on enforcing laws, making arrests and issuing citations. As a result of this as well as an increase in militarized policing techniques, Americans are eight times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist, estimates a Washington’s Blog report based on official statistical data.

    Though the U.S. government does not have a database collecting information about the total number of police involved shootings each year, it’s estimated that between 500 and 1,000 Americans are killed by police officers each year. Since 9/11, about 5,000 Americans have been killed by U.S. police officers, which is almost equivalent to the number of U.S. soldiers who have been killed in the line of duty in Iraq.

    Because individual police departments are not required to submit information regarding the use of deadly force by its officers, some bloggers have taken it upon themselves to aggregate that data. Wikipedia also has a list of “justifiable homicides” in the U.S., which was created by documenting publicized deaths.

    Mike Prysner, one of the local directors of the Los Angeles chapter for ANSWER — an advocacy group that asks the public to Act Now to Stop War and End Racism — told Mint Press News earlier this year that the “epidemic” of police harassment and violence is a nationwide issue.

    He said groups like ANSWER are trying to hold officers accountable for abuse of power. “[Police brutality] has been an issue for a very long time,” Prysner said, explaining that in May, 13 people were killed in Southern California by police.

    As Mint Press News previously reported, each year there are thousands of claims of police misconduct. According to the CATO Institute’s National Police Misconduct Reporting Project, in 2010 there were 4,861 unique reports of police misconduct involving 6,613 sworn officers and 6,826 alleged victims.

    Most of those allegations of police brutality involved officers who punched or hit victims with batons, but about one-quarter of the reported cases involved firearms or stun guns.



    Racist policing
    A big element in the police killings, Prysner says, is racism. “A big majority of those killed are Latinos and Black people,” while the police officers are mostly White, he said. “It’s a badge of honor to shoot gang members so [the police] go out and shoot people who look like gang members,” Prysner argued, giving the example of 34-year-old Rigoberto Arceo, who was killed by police on May 11.

    According to a report from the Los Angeles Times, Arceo, who was a biomedical technician at St. Francis Medical Center, was shot and killed after getting out of his sister’s van. The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department says Arceo “advanced on the deputy and attempted to take the deputy’s gun.” However, Arceo’s sister and 53-year-old Armando Garcia — who was barbecuing in his yard when the incident happened — say that Arceo had his hands above his head the entire time.

    Prysner is not alone in his assertion that race is a major factor in officer-related violence. This past May, a study from the the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, an anti-racist activist organization, found that police officers, security guards or self-appointed vigilantes killed at least 313 Black people in 2012 — meaning one Black person was killed in the U.S. by law enforcement roughly every 28 hours.

    Prysner said the relationship between police departments and community members needs to change and that when police shoot an unarmed person with their arms in the air over their head, the officer should be punished.



    A culture of misconduct
    “You cannot have a police force that is investigating and punishing itself,” Prysner said, adding that taxpayer money should be invested into the community instead of given to police to buy more guns, assault rifles and body armor.

    Dissatisfied with police departments’ internal review policies, some citizens have formed volunteer police watch groups to prevent the so-called “Blue Code of Silence” effect and encourage police officers to speak out against misconduct occurring within their department.

    As Mint Press News previously reported, a report released earlier this year found that of the 439 cases of police misconduct that then had been brought before the Minneapolis’s year-old misconduct review board, not one of the police officers involved has been disciplined.

    Although the city of Minneapolis spent $14 million in payouts for alleged police misconduct between 2006 and 2012, despite the fact that the Minneapolis Police Department often concluded that the officers involved in those cases did nothing wrong.

    Other departments have begun banning equipment such as Tasers, but those decisions were likely more about protecting the individual departments from lawsuits than ensuring that officers are not equipped with weapons that cause serious and sometimes fatal injuries when used.

    To ensure officers are properly educated on how to use their weapons and are aware of police ethics, conflict resolution and varying cultures within a community, police departments have historically held training programs for all officers. But due to tighter budgets and a shift in priorities, many departments have not provided the proper continuing education training programs for their officers.

    Charles Ramsey, president of both the Major Cities Chiefs Association and the Police Executive Research Forum, called that a big mistake, explaining that it is essential officers are trained and prepared for high-stress situations:

    “Not everybody is going to be able to make those kinds of good decisions under pressure, but I do think that the more reality-based training that we provide, the more we put people in stressful situations to make them respond and make them react.”



    GI Joe replaces Carl Winslow
    In order to help local police officers protect themselves while fighting the largely unsuccessful War on Drugs, the federal government passed legislation in 1994 allowing the Pentagon to donate surplus military equipment from the Cold War to local police departments. Meaning that “weaponry designed for use on a foreign battlefield has been handed over for use on American streets … against American citizens.”

    So while the U.S. military fights the War on Terror abroad, local police departments are fighting another war at home with some of the same equipment as U.S. troops, and protocol that largely favors officers in such tactics as no-knock raids.

    Radley Balko, author of “Rise of the Warrior Cop,” wrote in the Wall Street Journal in August:

    “Since the 1960s, in response to a range of perceived threats, law-enforcement agencies across the U.S., at every level of government, have been blurring the line between police officer and soldier.

    “Driven by martial rhetoric and the availability of military-style equipment—from bayonets and M-16 rifles to armored personnel carriers—American police forces have often adopted a mind-set previously reserved for the battlefield. The war on drugs and, more recently, post-9/11 antiterrorism efforts have created a new figure on the U.S. scene: the warrior cop—armed to the teeth, ready to deal harshly with targeted wrongdoers, and a growing threat to familiar American liberties.”

    As Mint Press News previously reported, statistics from an FBI report released in September reveal that a person is arrested on marijuana-related charges in the U.S. every 48 seconds, on average — most were for simple possession charges.

    According to the FBI’s report, there were more arrests for marijuana possession than for the violent crimes of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault — 658,231 compared with 521,196 arrests.

    While groups that advocate against police brutality recognize and believe that law enforcement officials should be protected while on duty, many say that local police officers do not need to wear body armor, Kevlar helmets and tactical equipment vests — all while carrying assault weapons.

    “We want the police to keep up with the latest technology. That’s critical,” American Civil Liberties Union senior counsel Kara Dansky said. “But policing should be about protection, not combat.”

    According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, there are more than 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the United States. In 2012, 120 officers were killed in the line of duty. The deadliest day in law enforcement history was reportedly Sept. 11, 2001, when 72 officers were killed.

    Despite far fewer officers dying in the line of duty compared with American citizens, police departments are not only increasing their use of protective and highly volatile gear, but are increasingly setting aside a portion of their budget to invest in new technology such as drones, night vision goggles, remote robots, surveillance cameras, license plate readers and armored vehicles that amount to unarmed tanks.

    Though some officers are on board with the increased militarization and attend conferences such as the annual Urban Shield event, others have expressed concern with the direction the profession is heading.

    For example, former Arizona police officer Jon W. McBride said police concerns about being “outgunned” were likely a “self-fulfilling prophecy.” He added that “if not expressly prohibited, police managers will continually push the arms race,” because “their professional literature is predominately [sic] based on the acquiring and use of newer weapons and more aggressive techniques to physically overwhelm the public. In many cases, however, this is the opposite of smart policing.”

    “Coupled with the paramilitary design of the police bureaucracy itself, the police give in to what is already a serious problem in the ranks: the belief that the increasing use of power against a citizen is always justified no matter the violation. The police don’t understand that in many instances they are the cause of the escalation and bear more responsibility during an adverse outcome.

    “The suspects I encountered as a former police officer and federal agent in nearly all cases granted permission for me to search their property when asked, often despite unconcealed contraband. Now, instead of making a simple request of a violator, many in law enforcement seem to take a more difficult and confrontational path, fearing personal risk. In many circumstances they inflame the citizens they are engaging, thereby needlessly putting themselves in real and increased jeopardy.”

    Another former police officer who wished to remain anonymous agreed with McBride and told Balko,

    “American policing really needs to return to a more traditional role of cops keeping the peace; getting out of police cars, talking to people, and not being prone to overreaction with the use of firearms, tasers, or pepper spray. … Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been in more than my share tussles and certainly appreciate the dangers of police work, but as Joseph Wambaugh famously said, the real danger is psychological, not physical.”


  • We were better off in this country when most cops were addicted to donuts and alcohol rather than military gear and violence.

    The cops really do consider themselves to be a breed above and apart. They exaggerate the dangers they face on the job and are becoming increasingly likely to hurt civilians first and ask questions later.

    I'll take the "most cops are good" arguments more seriously when I see more cops reporting the shitbags in their midst.

    The NYPD backturners are a particularly childish bunch of self-important assholes.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    LazarusOblong said:


    I'll take the "most cops are good" arguments more seriously when I see more cops reporting the shitbags in their midst.


    A thousand co-signs.

    And they have the fucking nerve to ask for people to trust them and the system and to come forward as witnesses. They won't act when it comes to the wrong-doings of their peers and within their community but expect others - with much less protection and much more to lose - to do exactly that.

  • JectWonJectWon (@_@) 1,654 Posts
    edith head said:

    Please enlighten me. Did all of this hate towards De Blasio really just stem from him publicly admitting his sympathy with Eric Garner supporters & saying on record that he had a talk with his (black) son to tread lightly if he ever had a confrontation with the police?

    Not sure if this is true, however I have heard that there is a contingent of cops who feel that De Blasio contributed/created the Garner situation because he (supposedly) encouraged/demanded cops start enforcing some of the free/black market sales that occur in the city (and hurt tax dollar intake); like selling loose cigs'.

    Seems that most examples of that argument come from overtly right wing camps, though.

  • jleejlee 1,539 Posts
    I'd be very surprised if De Blasio was pushing for additional police effort on low-level crimes (like selling loosies) to increase tax revenue. He seems to be (at least based on the marijuana position) astutely aware that there is a very real opportunity cost when we enforce small-time /non-violent crimes. While I don't see either City Hall or Bratton moving too far away from reducing how they patrol "broken windows", I doubt he pushed the police force to go after the likes of "criminals" such as Eric Garner.

    Anyway, I suspect the city "law enforcement" revenue probably is weighed more heavily to parking tickets anyway than small-time "criminals"

    I do have to say, aside from the horrific death of police officers from a psychotic/crazy person --- I was incredibly saddened to see the very valid topic of NYPD heavy-handedness in NYC get so derailed because of this tragedy. De Blasio has he faults for sure, but it did seem that he was willing to push for more governance into what NYPD can legitimize as "accidental" death (read: murder) of unarmed citizens. And with the public outcry from the Garner ruling and the death of Akai Gurley it [em]almost[/em] seemed that NYPD realized that they had to change course with how it dealt with these situations. With the murder of Liu and Ramos, this got put on the back-burner and instead the focus is now on City Hall vs. NYPD.

  • white_teawhite_tea 3,262 Posts
    Tone-deaf op-ed in today's NYT from a retired NYPD http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/opinion/the-nypd-protests-an-officers-view.html

    The reaction to de Blasio's very measured and noncontroversial comments - wouldn't it be wise for anyone to be mindful in their dealings with police, much less black males who are most frequently mistreated? - is mind blowing. And I am somehow having a bizarre gut reaction to want to see more enforcement of petty crimes with the police now clearly not doing their jobs. The mind boggles.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts

  • I don't know a lot of the de Blasio vs NYPD politics running up to these killings, but as an outside observer my mind is reeling at the prospect of cops turning their back to their mayor because he warned his son to be careful with police. Oh. And he stood beside Al Sharpton?

    Are the cops fucking serious? They want the public's respect, and this is how they try to get it?

    Bassie's point is sooooo fucking on the mark. Cops who can't call out their crooked peers should never expect the public to cooperate with investigations. Pigs are so out of touch with their communities...

  • Options
    JectWon said:
    edith head said:

    Please enlighten me. Did all of this hate towards De Blasio really just stem from him publicly admitting his sympathy with Eric Garner supporters & saying on record that he had a talk with his (black) son to tread lightly if he ever had a confrontation with the police?

    Not sure if this is true, however I have heard that there is a contingent of cops who feel that De Blasio contributed/created the Garner situation because he (supposedly) encouraged/demanded cops start enforcing some of the free/black market sales that occur in the city (and hurt tax dollar intake); like selling loose cigs'.

    Seems that most examples of that argument come from overtly right wing camps, though.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2876435/De-Blasio-quietly-suppressed-New-York-untaxed-cigarettes-lawsuit-filed-week-Eric-Garner-grand-jury-decision.html

  • jleejlee 1,539 Posts
    Sween said:
    JectWon said:
    edith head said:

    Please enlighten me. Did all of this hate towards De Blasio really just stem from him publicly admitting his sympathy with Eric Garner supporters & saying on record that he had a talk with his (black) son to tread lightly if he ever had a confrontation with the police?

    Not sure if this is true, however I have heard that there is a contingent of cops who feel that De Blasio contributed/created the Garner situation because he (supposedly) encouraged/demanded cops start enforcing some of the free/black market sales that occur in the city (and hurt tax dollar intake); like selling loose cigs'.

    Seems that most examples of that argument come from overtly right wing camps, though.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2876435/De-Blasio-quietly-suppressed-New-York-untaxed-cigarettes-lawsuit-filed-week-Eric-Garner-grand-jury-decision.html

    I thought this was an issue driven in part because on-line sales (notably of Native American tribes: http://nypost.com/2013/12/02/despite-law-tribe-sells-1-7-tons-of-cigarettes-online/) to vendors in NYC.

    I am not a smoker, but I cannot imagine that any lawsuit for untaxed cigarettes is driven by concerns of selling loosies. I assume more it's vendors getting a hold of these untaxed cigarettes in large quantities.

    plus (and I know I am probably kidding myself here as some De Blasio apologist) wouldn't this type of legislation further push the City's desire to have higher cost cigarettes to deter smokers?

    That said - even I would suggest that this attempt to hide the lawsuit in lieu of the Garner outcome is some pretty shadow-ey politician thing to do.

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    When did the NYPD become a bunch of babies?

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    In many communities the Police are used as income generators enforcing bullshit laws, writing bullshit tickets and making bullshit arrests all in the name of making revenue for their local government.

    The cops didn't come up with a law against selling "looseys"..but they are the ones who are told to enforce it.

    How the fuck can you expect the community to respect even the best cops whose job is to enforce such bullshit.

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    In many communities the Police are used as income generators enforcing bullshit laws, writing bullshit tickets and making bullshit arrests all in the name of making revenue for their local government.

    The cops didn't come up with a law against selling "looseys"..but they are the ones who are told to enforce it.

    How the fuck can you expect the community to respect even the best cops whose job is to enforce such bullshit.

    Cops as revenue generators is a big part of the problem. Look at Ferguson.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,896 Posts
    Bon Vivant said:
    Rockadelic said:
    In many communities the Police are used as income generators enforcing bullshit laws, writing bullshit tickets and making bullshit arrests all in the name of making revenue for their local government.

    The cops didn't come up with a law against selling "looseys"..but they are the ones who are told to enforce it.

    How the fuck can you expect the community to respect even the best cops whose job is to enforce such bullshit.

    Cops as revenue generators is a big part of the problem. Look at Ferguson civil forfeiture.

    http://rt.com/usa/civil-forfeiture-new-yorker-244/

  • Rockadelic said:
    In many communities the Police are used as income generators enforcing bullshit laws, writing bullshit tickets and making bullshit arrests all in the name of making revenue for their local government.

    The cops didn't come up with a law against selling "looseys"..but they are the ones who are told to enforce it.

    How the fuck can you expect the community to respect even the best cops whose job is to enforce such bullshit.

    I've been arguing such in the face of your "the cops are our friends" responses for years.

    Is this a breakthrough or some sort of trick?

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    LazarusOblong said:
    Rockadelic said:
    In many communities the Police are used as income generators enforcing bullshit laws, writing bullshit tickets and making bullshit arrests all in the name of making revenue for their local government.

    The cops didn't come up with a law against selling "looseys"..but they are the ones who are told to enforce it.

    How the fuck can you expect the community to respect even the best cops whose job is to enforce such bullshit.

    I've been arguing such in the face of your "the cops are our friends" responses for years.

    Is this a breakthrough or some sort of trick?

    It's a classic example of "Don't hate the player, hate the game"

    You treat cops the same way you treat NY Yankees....they could be the most upstanding humans ever, but as soon as they put on the uniform they earn your hate.

    Enforcing bullshit laws is not dictated by the individual officer, it's the very definition of the job as created by the legal system and politicians.

    90% of Cops are out there earning the hate of the public for simply doing their jobs.

    10% are fucking criminals that should be in jail.

    I support the 90%

  • FrankFrank 2,370 Posts
    How do you get that "90% are good" percentage?

    To me anybody who puts on a uniform and straps a gun and thinks this is the way he wants to waste their life is s bleeding idiot. Now there are sociopathic idiots, racist idiots or just your plain run off the mill idiot who's could do basic, primitive chores, doesn't have to be an asshole but is still a fucking idiot. By what I so far have seen and experienced of the US police (in a total of 8 years of living there) I'd guess that maybe 80% of your regular beat cop is a complete and utter idiot AND an asshole and perhaps 20% are just assholes without too much hostility in them (yet). Most of them aren't even in good physical shape. Not a big deal, that's what cops are like all over the world. I mean isn't it completely clear that nobody of even average intelligence and with a bit of personal drive and capable of independent thinking would even consider such a terrible career choice. Being a cop is for dim witted bullies. Losers who are too domestic to join the army. They're trash. The bottom sediment of society. One step above your regular tweaker or the homeless. That's why this scum acts so aggressively towards the lowest members of society, because what they see in them is their own failure, a pointless life that's controlled by authority and violence. That's where all their hate, their posturing and their laughable imitation gang behavior comes from... those who turned their backs to the mayor should all be fired and blocked from social welfare and any other government benefits. The fact that behavior like this is being tolerated is a joke. Who do these brainless minions think they are?

    At the end of the day, if you chose to be part of a brutal gang then don't be surprised if a large portion of the populace says or at least thinks "good riddance" if you or a fellow pig gets it.

    Fuck em all.

  • Fred_GarvinFred_Garvin The land of wind and ghosts 337 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    It's a classic example of "Don't hate the player, hate the game"

    You treat cops the same way you treat NY Yankees....they could be the most upstanding humans ever, but as soon as they put on the uniform they earn your hate.

    Enforcing bullshit laws is not dictated by the individual officer, it's the very definition of the job as created by the legal system and politicians.

    90% of Cops are out there earning the hate of the public for simply doing their jobs.

    10% are fucking criminals that should be in jail.

    I support the 90%

    No argument on the bullshit laws thing.

    I'm not sure where you get the 90/10 split from, but I don't think it's that cut-and-dried. Very few cops are hated for "just doing their jobs". Enforcing bullshit laws is not what engenders the hate. Killing people who shouldn't have to die, while enforcing said bullshit laws, is what does it (among other things)... along with avoiding any accountability for said killing.

    If we're to take the 90/10 figure at face value, I'll add this:

    When the 90% stick up for the 10%, they are supporting criminal behavior and have ceased to be part of the solution.



    As a side note, since when is "just doing one's job" an excuse for anything? If you're doing it with poor judgment and weak results... yeah, the job is being done, but what have you accomplished at that point?

    Doesn't doing one's job well carry a level of importance, especially when the difference between the two is the lives of people whose protection is supposed to be part of your job?

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    When "Doing's one job" by mandate, consists of writing tickets, arresting people for selling a fucking cigarette and enforcing bullshit drug laws you are going to make enemies in your community by simply doing your job. Even if you do it as "correctly" as possible.

    There are 500,000 police in this country. If anyone has any kind of data that more than 50,000 of them are criminals, trash and losers, other than some anecdotal immature anti-authority claptrap, I'm all ears.

    But when people state that simply putting on a police uniform makes you trash and a loser the entire discussion pretty much becomes moot. And unfortunately this is the attitude that promotes an "us against them" mentality...on both sides.

    Anarchy is cool when you're a pre-teen.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Frank has never been so on point. Don't take the stupid fucking job to begin with. We don't need this many cops and hardly any of them are the automatic heroes they all seem to portray themselves to be. In this country, cops are faaaar more the boot heal of the ruling class than they are servants of the community. So until that changes significantly across the board, it's fuck them all on sight until they individually prove said sentiment wrong. No more benefit of the doubt, assholes.

  • Fred_GarvinFred_Garvin The land of wind and ghosts 337 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    When "Doing's one job" by mandate, consists of writing tickets, arresting people for selling a fucking cigarette and enforcing bullshit drug laws you are going to make enemies in your community by simply doing your job.
    Enemies in the community, maybe... but large-scale protests and social outrage don't happen because of ticket-writing and minor arrests.

    There are 500,000 police in this country. If anyone has any kind of data that more than 50,000 of them are criminals, trash and losers, other than some anecdotal immature anti-authority claptrap, I'm all ears.
    Yeah, that was kind of my point. I don't know that there is any verifiable data on such a thing, which is why I don't make any assumptions about the number of "good" v. "bad" cops, and bear in mind the idea that people, including police, cannot be simply categorized as 100% good or bad. It's the actions that matter, and an officer who does something horrible doesn't deserve a pass simply for having a good record prior to that point.

    But when people state that simply putting on a police uniform makes you trash and a loser the entire discussion pretty much becomes moot. And unfortunately this is the attitude that promotes an "us against them" mentality...on both sides.
    Fair enough, but I'm not saying that. I'm aware that some people are, but it doesn't appear that number, as a percentage, is any higher than the percentage of crooked police.

    It's certainly no more, and no worse, than those who say that putting on a police uniform means you are above civilian law and societal expectation, and that it's OK for you to decide who lives and who dies.

    Some people are assholes, police are people, ergo, some police are assholes.

    The us v. them mentality would also be greatly helped by police departments taking real action against the crimes and poor behavior of their less scrupulous members, rather than supporting/condoning/hiding them.

    Anarchy is cool when you're a pre-teen.
    But expecting better from public servicepeople never goes out of style.

  • FrankFrank 2,370 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    When "Doing's one job" by mandate, consists of writing tickets, arresting people for selling a fucking cigarette and enforcing bullshit drug laws you are going to make enemies in your community by simply doing your job. Even if you do it as "correctly" as possible.

    There are 500,000 police in this country. If anyone has any kind of data that more than 50,000 of them are criminals, trash and losers, other than some anecdotal immature anti-authority claptrap, I'm all ears.

    But when people state that simply putting on a police uniform makes you trash and a loser the entire discussion pretty much becomes moot. And unfortunately this is the attitude that promotes an "us against them" mentality...on both sides.

    Anarchy is cool when you're a pre-teen.

    In the civilized world there's this concept called "common sense". It's a very strange train of thought that involves applying the law where it serves the common good and where the severity of the crime actually demands action by the authorities in order to uphold the peace. Some guy selling single, un-taxed cigarettes would be pretty much ignored elsewhere. When I lived in Berlin I bought almost all my smokes from Vietnamese vendors you would find in and around subway stations and never heard about the cops giving them any grief. Occasionally there were raids on the distributors and smugglers but that's just a part of the game that's been accepted by both sides. There are plenty of things that piss me off when I'm in Germany, plenty. No society is perfect, wherever people live and interact with each other there will always be room for improvement. It's important that these improvements actually happen. It's an uphill battle because new problems will always present themselves. How many cops do you think feel the need for change? They just want more guns, more equipment and more getting away with anything.

    This DeBlasio/NYPD stand-off is unbelievable. How can the NYPD have the fucking chuzpe to turn their backs to the mayor who in the chain of command stands above all of these uniformed monkeys. Now that's fucking anarchy and not some dude selling untaxed smokes or some teen showing off by walking in the middle of the street. I've had plenty of interactions with cops on several continents and nowhere, not even in 3rd world dictatorships have I encountered such an aggravating mix of stupidity, hostility and absurdly exaggerated sense of authority as with US cops.

    Most of these fuckers don't belong in a uniform but in some social rehabilitation program like they have them for other ex gang members.

    Fuckers should be taught some manners and get waterboarded every time they answer to a citizen with anything else but "yes sir" or "yes mam". They're low rent servants and not the fucking gestapo.

  • youtube won't allow me to embed (disabled by request) but this scene, from The Wire, breaks the whole thing entirely down - a major upbraiding his sergeant for racking up arrests, stats, and seizures, without knowing a damn thing about policing the community. and how, if you treat some shit like a war, everyone's going to be warriors, and the community will just become occupied territory.



    honestly I am not surprised at the police's behavior. it reflects our values as Americans. Until we change that shit, this will continue.

  • Rockadelic said:
    LazarusOblong said:
    Rockadelic said:
    In many communities the Police are used as income generators enforcing bullshit laws, writing bullshit tickets and making bullshit arrests all in the name of making revenue for their local government.

    The cops didn't come up with a law against selling "looseys"..but they are the ones who are told to enforce it.

    How the fuck can you expect the community to respect even the best cops whose job is to enforce such bullshit.

    I've been arguing such in the face of your "the cops are our friends" responses for years.

    Is this a breakthrough or some sort of trick?

    It's a classic example of "Don't hate the player, hate the game"

    You treat cops the same way you treat NY Yankees....they could be the most upstanding humans ever, but as soon as they put on the uniform they earn your hate.

    Enforcing bullshit laws is not dictated by the individual officer, it's the very definition of the job as created by the legal system and politicians.

    90% of Cops are out there earning the hate of the public for simply doing their jobs.

    10% are fucking criminals that should be in jail.

    I support the 90%

    I'm not going to ask where you got the 90% figure. You won't answer, and besides, I know you just pulled it out of your ass.

    But seriously, if 10% of cops in this country are "fucking criminals that deserve to be in jail" we have a problem even worse than the one I've been pointing out to you (to no avail) for these past several years.

    Since you're a right-winger with an authority fetish, your answer to everything is "throw them in jail." How about not hiring sociopaths in the first place? How about demilitarizing the police? How about shaming the dumbass right-wing philosophy that says "if you run from a cop, you deserve a beating"?

    Yes, lock up some cops. But fire a whole lot more. We have way too many people in prison in this country as it is. The path to sanity doesn't involve yet more macho bullshit.

  • By the way, what is this "earning the hate of the public" business? The public is letting cops off the hook over and over again and excuses for them when they step over the line. Most of the public gives them the worship they demand. You included, at least up until this "10 % should be in prison" bombshell.

    A small portion of the public is daring to question the Blue God Group and it's pissing them off. They don't want civilian oversight, they don't want body cameras, they just want us all kneeling when they walk by.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Why does any politician consort with Al Sharpton?

  • edith headedith head 5,106 Posts
    PatrickCrazy said:

    thanks, this is the kind of back context i was looking for but i still think the funeral protests were a horrible look.

  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    Hey,

    My thought on the De Blasio/NYPD situation is that people should always dignify themselves by showing class. The NYPD, as keepers of the peace, should've shown the proper respect for De Blasio irrespective of their personal feelings about him. They should represent a symbol of class and decorum to the citizenry as the entity charged with keeping the peace. By behaving as they did, the NYPD only heaped gasoline on the fire storm of outrage some members of the public have toward the police department. In kind, De Blasio needs to show the proper respect toward the NYPD given the job they're charged to do for the populace. He symbolizes the people and needs to carry his charge with that simple fact in mind. Similarly, protests should not have been staged during a funeral, as that was just totally disrespectful to the slain police officers, and their families and friends. As keepers of the peace, the NYPD should be treated with respect as well since they serve to maintain some semblance of social order. Behaving respectfully toward others does not necessarily mean you agree with what they represent. Being respectful simply shows that you have self-respect and dignity. There has been plenty of classless behavior across the board, and people need to put on their 'big-kid pants' and act like adults.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak
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