Bush Official Charged With Voter Suppression (NRR)

SonicReducerSonicReducer 421 Posts
edited August 2005 in Strut Central
This is my first non record related post, but this story has me so angry that my ears are blowin' tea kettle steam and I'm about to shoot lightning bolts out my ass.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050811/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_voter_suppressionWASHINGTON - Despite a zero-tolerance policy on tampering with voters, the Republican Party has quietly paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to provide private defense lawyers for a former Bush campaign official charged with conspiring to keep Democrats from voting in New Hampshire. James Tobin, the president's 2004 campaign chairman for New England, is charged in New Hampshire federal court with four felonies accusing him of conspiring with a state GOP official and a GOP consultant in Virginia to jam Democratic and labor union get-out-the-vote phone banks in November 2002.A telephone firm was paid to make repeated hang-up phone calls to overwhelm the phone banks in New Hampshire and prevent them from getting Democratic voters to the polls on Election Day 2002, prosecutors allege. Republican John Sununu won a close race that day to be New Hampshire's newest senator.At the time, Tobin was the RNC's New England regional director, before moving to President Bush's 2004 re-election campaign.A top New Hampshire Party official and a GOP consultant already have pleaded guilty and cooperated with prosecutors. Tobin's indictment accuses him of specifically calling the GOP consultant to get a telephone firm to help in the scheme."The object of the conspiracy was to deprive inhabitants of New Hampshire and more particularly qualified voters ... of their federally secured right to vote," states the latest indictment issued by a federal grand jury on May 18.Since charges were first filed in December, the RNC has spent more than $722,000 to provide Tobin, who has pleaded innocent, a team of lawyers from the high-powered Washington law firm of Williams & Connolly. The firm's other clients include Bill and Hillary Clinton and former Housing Secretary Henry Cisneros.The GOP's filings with the FEC list the payments to Williams & Connolly without specifying they were for Tobin's defense. Political parties have wide latitude on how they spend their money, including on lawyers.Republican Party officials said they don't ordinarily discuss specifics of their legal work, but confirmed to The Associated Press they had agreed to underwrite Tobin's defense because he was a longtime supporter and that he assured them he had committed no crimes."Jim is a longtime friend who has served as both an employee and an independent contractor for the RNC," a spokeswoman for the RNC, Tracey Schmitt, said Wednesday. "This support is based on his assurance and our belief that Jim has not engaged in any wrongdoing."The Republican Party has repeatedly and pointedly disavowed any tactics aimed at keeping citizens from voting since allegations of voter suppression surfaced during the Florida recount in 2000 that tipped the presidential race to Bush.Earlier this week, RNC chairman Ken Mehlman, the former White House political director, reiterated a "zero-tolerance policy" for any GOP official caught trying to block legitimate votes."The position of the Republican National Committee is simple: We will not tolerate fraud; we will not tolerate intimidation; we will not tolerate suppression. No employee, associate or any person representing the Republican Party who engages in these kinds of acts will remain in that position," Mehlman wrote Monday to a group that studied voter suppression tactics.Dennis Black and Dane Butswinkas, two Williams & Connolly lawyers for Tobin, did not return calls Wednesday seeking comment. Brian Tucker, a New Hampshire lawyer on the team, declined comment.Tobin's lawyers have attacked the prosecution, suggesting evidence was improperly introduced to the grand jury, that their client originally had been promised he wouldn't be indicted and that he was improperly charged under one of the statutes.Tobin stepped down from his Bush-Cheney post a couple of weeks before the November 2004 election after Democrats suggested he was involved in the phone bank scheme. He was charged a month after the election.Paul Twomey, a volunteer lawyer for New Hampshire Democrats who are pursuing a separate lawsuit involving the phone scheme, said he was surprised the RNC was willing to pay Tobin's legal bills and that it suggested more people may be involved."It originally appeared to us that there were just certain rogue elements of the Republican Party who were willing to do anything to win control of the U.S. Senate, including depriving Americans of their ability to vote," Twomey said. "But now that the RNC actually is bankrolling Mr. Tobin's defense, coupled with the fact that it has refused some discovery in the civil case, really raises the questions of who are they protecting, how high does this go and who was in on this," Twomey said. Federal prosecutors have secured testimony from the two convicted conspirators in the scheme directly implicating Tobin. Charles McGee, the New Hampshire GOP official who pleaded guilty, told prosecutors he informed Tobin of the plan and asked for Tobin's help in finding a vendor who could make the calls that would flood the phone banks. Allen Raymond, a former colleague of Tobin who operated a Virginia-based telephone services firm, told prosecutors Tobin called him in October 2002, explained the telephone plan and asked Raymond's company to help McGee implement it. Raymond's lawyer told the court that Tobin made the request for help in his official capacity as the top RNC official for New England and his client believed the RNC had sanctioned the activity.
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  Comments


  • DelayDelay 4,530 Posts
    something tells me this is just the tip of the iceberg. somehow i doubt the truth will ever fully be revealed.

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    something tells me this is just the tip of the iceberg. somehow I need to find an inside source[/b]

    Sounds like a job for some reportorial ninjas. Calling......








  • I'll be the devils advocate here...How does jamming a call center suppress anyone???s right to vote? I do not need anyone to call me and "remind" me to vote. I'm sure this is some kind of crime, since its interfering with a business, but it certainly doesn't equate to voter suppression just because people didn't get their reminder call.

  • roistoroisto 879 Posts
    Well it certainly is shady. And probably not the only way they suppressed voters.

  • Shady yes, voter suppression no.



    Karl Rove is the master and commander of dirty tricks, just ask John McCain.

  • something tells me this is just the tip of the iceberg. somehow i doubt the truth will ever fully be revealed.

  • sam909sam909 192.168.0.1 14 Posts
    something tells me this is just the tip of the iceberg.

    please believe there is more they're not telling us.

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    I'll be the devils advocate here...How does jamming a call center suppress anyone???s right to vote? I do not need anyone to call me and "remind" me to vote. I'm sure this is some kind of crime, since its interfering with a business, but it certainly doesn't equate to voter suppression just because people didn't get their reminder call.



    1) it's against the law.



    2) less than half of americans vote. "get out the vote" calls engages people who are otherwise apathetic. when a race is so close, these calls can tip the balance.



    3) did you read the article?

  • BigSpliffBigSpliff 3,266 Posts
    Shady yes, voter suppression no.

    Karl Rove is the master and commander of dirty tricks, just ask John McCain.

    There is voter suppression followed by vote suppression.

    If you deny this you have your head buried in the sand. If you are genuinely interested in reading about it, I can post a linkfest.

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    I'll be the devils advocate here...How does jamming a call center suppress anyone???s right to vote? I do not need anyone to call me and "remind" me to vote. I'm sure this is some kind of crime, since its interfering with a business, but it certainly doesn't equate to voter suppression just because people didn't get their reminder call.

    It's voter suppression when they jam the lines at the fireman's benevolent assn. that offers rides to the old and infirm. Those people call for the ride they're expecting, get a busy signal all day, then can't vote because they can't get to the polls.

    simple. also illegal.



  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I'll be the devils advocate here...How does jamming a call center suppress anyone???s right to vote? I do not need anyone to call me and "remind" me to vote. I'm sure this is some kind of crime, since its interfering with a business, but it certainly doesn't equate to voter suppression just because people didn't get their reminder call.

    For decades the Ds were better at getting out the vote than the Rs. In the 1990s the Rs stepped up their game and both today are just as good at getting out the vote.

    The Rs also stepped up the voter suppression game. The Ds do not engage in voter supression.

    This is the tip of the iceberg. There are many many more examples of voter repression.

    In FL state police set up check points near Black community polling places to scare, and inconvince voters. In FL a private company is hired to remove possible felons from the rolls in Black communitys. It has been shown that when they found a John Johnson with a felony they removed all John Johnsons in the target precints.

    In the Dakota's they video tape and voters and their cars at Native American polling places in an attempt to intimadate and voters.

    In NC they orchestrated a get out the vote campaign in Black precints with the wrong date.

    In OR and across the nation and in congress they have attempted to make regiestering to vote more difficult by opposing things such as using DMVs as places where people can regiester.

    They promote apathy and drug use in hopes of keeping young people from voting. (Archaic please back me up on this one.)

    Dan

  • I'll be the devils advocate here...How does jamming a call center suppress anyone???s right to vote? I do not need anyone to call me and "remind" me to vote. I'm sure this is some kind of crime, since its interfering with a business, but it certainly doesn't equate to voter suppression just because people didn't get their reminder call.

    1) it's against the law.

    2) less than half of americans vote. "get out the vote" calls engages people who are otherwise apathetic. when a race is so close, these calls can tip the balance.

    3) did you read the article?

    1) Again, how was anyone???s right to vote suppressed? I already mentioned there was probably some illegality in interfering with commerce, but no ones right to vote was infringed on.

    2) These are the mindless robots that invariably inhabit both parties that you want to decide an election? I'd rather the informed 1/2 that gives a shit vote.

    Yes, what did I miss? They jammed a call center so the friendly union/party boss "reminder" calls were unable to go out. Very shady, but NOT voter suppression!



  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I'll be the devils advocate here...How does jamming a call center suppress anyone???s right to vote? I do not need anyone to call me and "remind" me to vote. I'm sure this is some kind of crime, since its interfering with a business, but it certainly doesn't equate to voter suppression just because people didn't get their reminder call.

    1) it's against the law.

    2) less than half of americans vote. "get out the vote" calls engages people who are otherwise apathetic. when a race is so close, these calls can tip the balance.

    3) did you read the article?

    1) Again, how was anyone???s right to vote suppressed? I already mentioned there was probably some illegality in interfering with commerce, but no ones right to vote was infringed on.

    2) These are the mindless robots that invariably inhabit both parties that you want to decide an election? I'd rather the informed 1/2 that gives a shit vote.

    Yes, what did I miss? They jammed a call center so the friendly union/party boss "reminder" calls were unable to go out. Very shady, but NOT voter suppression!



    So in your mind anything short of incarteration is not voter suppression.

    Let's try using English.

    If they had not jammed the vote lines more people would have voted. Agreed.

    They did jam the lines, fewer people voted. Thus the vote was suppressed.

    What part of this do you not understand?

    Dan

  • I'll be the devils advocate here...How does jamming a call center suppress anyone???s right to vote? I do not need anyone to call me and "remind" me to vote. I'm sure this is some kind of crime, since its interfering with a business, but it certainly doesn't equate to voter suppression just because people didn't get their reminder call.

    It's voter suppression when they jam the lines at the fireman's benevolent assn. that offers rides to the old and infirm. Those people call for the ride they're expecting, get a busy signal all day, then can't vote because they can't get to the polls.

    simple. also illegal.



    Since when is getting a ride to the polls a constitutional right? My Granny gets an absentee ballot sent to her because she doesn't get around too good.

  • BigSpliffBigSpliff 3,266 Posts
    Also, in Baltimore 2000 they leafleted black areas saying

    a) don't forget to vote on (and gave the day after election)

    b) if you live in government housing make sure you have paid your rent

    c) have no outstanding parking tickets.

    So lies, disinformation, intimidation.

    These are grass-roots fascist activities. Just like the Brooks Bros revolt of "concerned citizens" who banged on windows demanding the 2000 FL recount be stopped. They were all identified photographically as FL State Republican officers (ie Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush flunkies)

    The Brownshirts are just a matter of time. But they'll be red, white and blue.

    Some people still need to WAKE THE FUCK UP!

    As Stalin or someone said, it does matter how they vote, it's how you count the votes.

    In 2000 the sudden, unexplained resignation of Voter News Service, who tally the exit polls was very fishy. Still has not been explained. Meanwhile 2004 in too close to call Ohio, the commissioner of elections declared a State of Emergency during the election (Patriot Act) and no independent observers were allowed to watch. Recently a member of BlackBoxVoting.org was arrested in San Diego for trying to look at the Diebold vote tallying software in action. The charges were dropped last week.

    It's got past Banana Republic stage. Knocking on fasism. For that you need mass-mobilization of the people. Constant war is good for this, as are military parades. However, the most accurate definition would be Kleptocratic Oligarchy. A lot of Americans buy into this because they think they are gonna get a piece of Bush's American Dream. You are deluded.










  • Since when is getting a ride to the polls a constitutional right? My Granny gets an absentee ballot sent to her because she doesn't get around too good.


    Dude,can you read?

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I'll be the devils advocate here...How does jamming a call center suppress anyone???s right to vote? I do not need anyone to call me and "remind" me to vote. I'm sure this is some kind of crime, since its interfering with a business, but it certainly doesn't equate to voter suppression just because people didn't get their reminder call.

    It's voter suppression when they jam the lines at the fireman's benevolent assn. that offers rides to the old and infirm. Those people call for the ride they're expecting, get a busy signal all day, then can't vote because they can't get to the polls.

    simple. also illegal.



    Since when is getting a ride to the polls a constitutional right? My Granny gets an absentee ballot sent to her because she doesn't get around too good.

  • I'll be the devils advocate here...How does jamming a call center suppress anyone???s right to vote? I do not need anyone to call me and "remind" me to vote. I'm sure this is some kind of crime, since its interfering with a business, but it certainly doesn't equate to voter suppression just because people didn't get their reminder call.

    1) it's against the law.

    2) less than half of americans vote. "get out the vote" calls engages people who are otherwise apathetic. when a race is so close, these calls can tip the balance.

    3) did you read the article?

    1) Again, how was anyone???s right to vote suppressed? I already mentioned there was probably some illegality in interfering with commerce, but no ones right to vote was infringed on.

    2) These are the mindless robots that invariably inhabit both parties that you want to decide an election? I'd rather the informed 1/2 that gives a shit vote.

    Yes, what did I miss? They jammed a call center so the friendly union/party boss "reminder" calls were unable to go out. Very shady, but NOT voter suppression!



    So in your mind anything short of incarteration is not voter suppression.

    Let's try using English.

    If they had not jammed the vote lines more people would have voted. Agreed.

    They did jam the lines, fewer people voted. Thus the vote was suppressed.

    What part of this do you not understand?

    Dan

    No one on those call lists were actually barred from voting correct?. If they gave a shit, they would have known when and where to cast their ballot.

  • BigSpliffBigSpliff 3,266 Posts
    The call lists are one aspect.

    There were plenty of other lists that (illegally) barred (black) people from voting





  • Since when is getting a ride to the polls a constitutional right? My Granny gets an absentee ballot sent to her because she doesn't get around too good.
    Dude,can you read?
    What did I miss? My granny is self-reliant and pro-active.

  • Also, in Baltimore 2000 they leafleted black areas saying

    a) don't forget to vote on (and gave the day after election)

    b) if you live in government housing make sure you have paid your rent

    c) have no outstanding parking tickets.

    So lies, disinformation, intimidation.

    These are grass-roots fascist activities. Just like the Brooks Bros revolt of "concerned citizens" who banged on windows demanding the 2000 FL recount be stopped. They were all identified photographically as FL State Republican officers (ie Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush flunkies)

    The Brownshirts are just a matter of time. But they'll be red, white and blue.

    Some people still need to WAKE THE FUCK UP!

    As Stalin or someone said, it does matter how they vote, it's how you count the votes.

    In 2000 the sudden, unexplained resignation of Voter News Service, who tally the exit polls was very fishy. Still has not been explained. Meanwhile 2004 in too close to call Ohio, the commissioner of elections declared a State of Emergency during the election (Patriot Act) and no independent observers were allowed to watch. Recently a member of BlackBoxVoting.org was arrested in San Diego for trying to look at the Diebold vote tallying software in action. The charges were dropped last week.

    It's got past Banana Republic stage. Knocking on fasism. For that you need mass-mobilization of the people. Constant war is good for this, as are military parades. However, the most accurate definition would be Kleptocratic Oligarchy. A lot of Americans buy into this because they think they are gonna get a piece of Bush's American Dream. You are deluded.

    a) don't forget to vote on (and gave the day after election)

    b) if you live in government housing make sure you have paid your rent

    c) have no outstanding parking tickets

    And you think people who can't see through this bullshit are capable of weighing in on the important issues of the day? Darwinism at its best!

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts

    No one on those call lists were actually barred[/b] from voting correct?. If they gave a shit, they would have known when and where to cast their ballot.

    I understand your just trying to have fun pretending you don't understand what's going on. But try to keep it reasonable.

    No one has been charged with voter barring. The were charged with voter suppression. There are laws against suppressing the vote. You do not need to bar someone to be guilty of suppressing the vote.

    The fact is that the vote was suppressed. Thus a crime was commited.

    Before posting again please look up suppress in the dictionary.

    Dan

  • slavinslavin 577 Posts

  • BigSpliffBigSpliff 3,266 Posts


    And you think people who can't see through this bullshit are capable of weighing in on the important issues of the day? Darwinism at its best!

    I'll just leave that one out there for you to c-o-n-t-e-m-p-l-a-t-e

    Unintentional humor at its best. You go Gruntgravel!

  • The_Hook_UpThe_Hook_Up 8,182 Posts

    And you think people who can't see through this bullshit are capable of weighing in on the important issues of the day? Darwinism at its best!

    oh my fucking God, you're not serious are you?

    Dont tell me you want to bring back the segragationist policies of having to take an "IQ" test before you were able to vote...because your statement above implies you would be for that...and that is beyond scary, that is fascist.


  • No one on those call lists were actually barred[/b] from voting correct?. If they gave a shit, they would have known when and where to cast their ballot.

    I understand your just trying to have fun pretending you don't understand what's going on. But try to keep it reasonable.

    No one has been charged with voter barring. The were charged with voter suppression. There are laws against suppressing the vote. You do not need to bar someone to be guilty of suppressing the vote.

    The fact is that the vote was suppressed. Thus a crime was commited.

    Before posting again please look up suppress in the dictionary.

    Dan

    Dan, are you trying to suppress me bro?

    suppression

    n 1: (botany) the failure to develop of some part or organ of a plant 2: the act of withholding or withdrawing some book or writing from publication or circulation; "a suppression of the newspaper" [syn: curtailment] 3: forceful prevention; putting down by power or authority[/b] ; "the suppression of heresy"; "the quelling of the rebellion"; "the stifling of all dissent" [syn: crushing, quelling, stifling] 4: (psychology) the conscious exclusion of unacceptable thoughts or desires [syn: inhibition]





  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    gruntgravel you sound like an irrational adolescent who thinks he knows it all. you'll find more folks who are on your wavelength if you

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    Also, in Baltimore 2000 they leafleted black areas saying

    a) don't forget to vote on (and gave the day after election)

    b) if you live in government housing make sure you have paid your rent

    c) have no outstanding parking tickets.

    So lies, disinformation, intimidation.

    These are grass-roots fascist activities. Just like the Brooks Bros revolt of "concerned citizens" who banged on windows demanding the 2000 FL recount be stopped. They were all identified photographically as FL State Republican officers (ie Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush flunkies)

    The Brownshirts are just a matter of time. But they'll be red, white and blue.

    Some people still need to WAKE THE FUCK UP!

    As Stalin or someone said, it does matter how they vote, it's how you count the votes.

    In 2000 the sudden, unexplained resignation of Voter News Service, who tally the exit polls was very fishy. Still has not been explained. Meanwhile 2004 in too close to call Ohio, the commissioner of elections declared a State of Emergency during the election (Patriot Act) and no independent observers were allowed to watch. Recently a member of BlackBoxVoting.org was arrested in San Diego for trying to look at the Diebold vote tallying software in action. The charges were dropped last week.

    It's got past Banana Republic stage. Knocking on fasism. For that you need mass-mobilization of the people. Constant war is good for this, as are military parades. However, the most accurate definition would be Kleptocratic Oligarchy. A lot of Americans buy into this because they think they are gonna get a piece of Bush's American Dream. You are deluded.

    a) don't forget to vote on (and gave the day after election)

    b) if you live in government housing make sure you have paid your rent

    c) have no outstanding parking tickets

    And you think people who can't see through this bullshit are capable of weighing in on the important issues of the day? Darwinism at its best!

    Its in the bill of rights... that was what made this country so great right? EVERYONE HAS A VOICE. You don;t have to agree with them but they have that right. Who is anyone to tell anyone else that they can't vote because they aren't educated enough, strong enough, or young enough? And please homie, you know they try to through out most absentee ballots. Also getting an absentee ballot to count is ALOT harder to do than a regular vote at a polling place simply becuase if there is any discrepency on it , it is tossed. I seriously hope you are just playing devils advocate.

  • twoplytwoply Only Built 4 Manzanita Links 2,914 Posts
    For the record, about a month ago I was contemplating the similarities between gruntgravel and roymarble. No joke.

  • novasolnovasol 204 Posts
    Long lines waiting to vote? Faulty machines? All better forms of voter suppression!
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